St. Louis Lambert Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

All the ways we move people and things: trains, planes, automobiles, biking, walking, etc.
First unread post5103 posts
SLC added in October from Southwest.
jshank83 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:47 am
SLC added in October from Southwest.
Any knowledge if Southwest is diverting connections to us from another location (Midway, for example) or if this is just an additional desitination for Salt Lake City?

Very happy to see an addition. I have not flown in a few months, one of my best friends did recently (the first time in years for him) and he was quick to text about how much busier T2 is now, and how long the concourse is now.
STLCityMike wrote:
jshank83 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:47 am
SLC added in October from Southwest.
Any knowledge if Southwest is diverting connections to us from another location (Midway, for example) or if this is just an additional desitination for Salt Lake City?

Very happy to see an addition. I have not flown in a few months, one of my best friends did recently (the first time in years for him) and he was quick to text about how much busier T2 is now, and how long the concourse is now.
They are moving connections from MDW to STL, I don't know if this is one or not. I think the DTW add was one though over summer.

Once they open the next bank of gates it will be half mile from E4 to E48. Long haul, but there are some other airports that are longer.
jshank83 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:48 pm
Once they open the next bank of gates it will be half mile from E4 to E48. Long haul, but there are some other airports that are longer.
Any ideas as to when that will be? I assume it's a ways out.
The Mayor wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:36 pm
jshank83 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:48 pm
Once they open the next bank of gates it will be half mile from E4 to E48. Long haul, but there are some other airports that are longer.
Any ideas as to when that will be? I assume it's a ways out.
I would guess Summer-ish 2020. They already have agreed to open 3 more, but no bids are out to do the improvements yet.
Ran thru the October WN schedule for STL.

Mon-fri 121 (one short of summer)
Sat 88
Sun 129 (most per day Southwest has ever had)
822 a week

Changes from Aug/Sept

Salt Lake +1 m-f
Cancun +1 Sun-Fri
Austin +1 Sat
Boston +1 Sat
Fort Lauderdale +1 Sat
Orlando +2 Sat
Columbus +1 Sun
Minny +1 Sun
Tampa +1 Sun
Philly -1 Sat +1 Sun
Pensacola -1 Sat (end of season)
Panama City -1 Sun

Changes YoY
Mon-Fri +6 (Cancun/SLC/CLE/DEN/DTW/Nashville)
Sat +4
Sun +16

Total +50 (6.5% gain)

Full spreadsheet. tab to far right
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
jshank83 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:48 pm
STLCityMike wrote:
jshank83 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:47 am
SLC added in October from Southwest.
Any knowledge if Southwest is diverting connections to us from another location (Midway, for example) or if this is just an additional desitination for Salt Lake City?

Very happy to see an addition. I have not flown in a few months, one of my best friends did recently (the first time in years for him) and he was quick to text about how much busier T2 is now, and how long the concourse is now.
They are moving connections from MDW to STL, I don't know if this is one or not. I think the DTW add was one though over summer.

Once they open the next bank of gates it will be half mile from E4 to E48. Long haul, but there are some other airports that are longer.
Any thoughts on why WN moving connections from MDW? 1) MDW at capacity 2) MDW getting more expensive and STL enplanement cost on downward trend 3) MDW wx impacts more severe and therefore more costly over the winter months
^I have to assume both capacity and weather are factors. Midway has hovered between 250,000 and 300,000 aircraft operations for a decade now, actually falling in recent years. (They hit their peak more than a decade ago, believe it or not.) Their longest runway is a thousand feet shorter than our shortest. They have five runways, but only four are suitable for commercial aircraft of any size. Of those, only two can be used at any given time, since they intersect dead center, meaning functionally what they have is two closely spaced parallels. During IFR operations they've got to be a one runway airport, with that one runway being quite short. That means weather will hit them unusually hard. Southwest has got to be thinking they want to save their rather precious slots there for O&D. I can't speak to cost per emplanement. I don't really know of any reason it should be going up significantly there. But since it was so high here the fact that it's coming down doubtless helps. And hey, that cost was associated with an extra runway that means Lambert is only a one runway airport under the very rarest (yesterday's ridiculous wind) circumstances.
^I think symphonic has it right. Not really anymore room to grow there. Probably focusing on O&D now at MDW and moving connections to STL.
symphonicpoet wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:44 am
^I have to assume both capacity and weather are factors. Midway has hovered between 250,000 and 300,000 aircraft operations for a decade now, actually falling in recent years. (They hit their peak more than a decade ago, believe it or not.) Their longest runway is a thousand feet shorter than our shortest. They have five runways, but only four are suitable for commercial aircraft of any size. Of those, only two can be used at any given time, since they intersect dead center, meaning functionally what they have is two closely spaced parallels. During IFR operations they've got to be a one runway airport, with that one runway being quite short. That means weather will hit them unusually hard. Southwest has got to be thinking they want to save their rather precious slots there for O&D. I can't speak to cost per emplanement. I don't really know of any reason it should be going up significantly there. But since it was so high here the fact that it's coming down doubtless helps. And hey, that cost was associated with an extra runway that means Lambert is only a one runway airport under the very rarest (yesterday's ridiculous wind) circumstances.
Just thinking here - but Midway underwent some pretty expansive renovations a few years back. That my have driven up there landing fees? I certainly DON'T want that to happen here, but I also wonder if it would be worth it to expand the concourse to the east, add a few gates ahead of E2 / E4. It would really only help locals, and help center our entrance more rather than push down D. Connectors would have the same walk regardless.
STLCityMike wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:26 am
symphonicpoet wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:44 am
^I have to assume both capacity and weather are factors. Midway has hovered between 250,000 and 300,000 aircraft operations for a decade now, actually falling in recent years. (They hit their peak more than a decade ago, believe it or not.) Their longest runway is a thousand feet shorter than our shortest. They have five runways, but only four are suitable for commercial aircraft of any size. Of those, only two can be used at any given time, since they intersect dead center, meaning functionally what they have is two closely spaced parallels. During IFR operations they've got to be a one runway airport, with that one runway being quite short. That means weather will hit them unusually hard. Southwest has got to be thinking they want to save their rather precious slots there for O&D. I can't speak to cost per emplanement. I don't really know of any reason it should be going up significantly there. But since it was so high here the fact that it's coming down doubtless helps. And hey, that cost was associated with an extra runway that means Lambert is only a one runway airport under the very rarest (yesterday's ridiculous wind) circumstances.
Just thinking here - but Midway underwent some pretty expansive renovations a few years back. That my have driven up there landing fees? I certainly DON'T want that to happen here, but I also wonder if it would be worth it to expand the concourse to the east, add a few gates ahead of E2 / E4. It would really only help locals, and help center our entrance more rather than push down D. Connectors would have the same walk regardless.
There is room to push east. Two to three gates. Tarmac would have to be built. Way less money to reopen whats there.
Recently I was walking through concourse A and realized that I have never seen a plane parked at gate A3. I know this is a Delta gate, but when do they use it? Is it primarily used as overflow in case A2-8 is filled?

Also, gate A9 and A15 are used for charters correct?
Perseus767 wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:46 pm
Recently I was walking through concourse A and realized that I have never seen a plane parked at gate A3. I know this is a Delta gate, but when do they use it? Is it primarily used as overflow in case A2-8 is filled?

Also, gate A9 and A15 are used for charters correct?
I think A3 is used for the LGA flights a lot. When I go to LGA it usually is that gate. There are 6 a day to LGA, 4 of the 6 used A3 today.

A15 is charters. A9 is just overflow. I have only seen it used by Delta to offload the late incoming SLC flight. No one ever loads on it. The waiting area is small so that is why no one uses it much. Would have to be an RJ. If contour ever started codesharing with Delta or United they could probably make it work, but that is about it.
New T2 Chapel opening this Friday near E40. Here's an interesting tidbit from the article,

"We're excited about this because in the absence there have been many employees and many passengers asking for this chapel," said the Rev. Rodrick Burton, president of the St. Louis Airport Interfaith Chaplaincy.

Burton said at first glance he was concerned that the new location is further away from many Southwest gates than the old one, which was near gate E33 further east.

But he said he believes Southwest will continue to expand its flights at Lambert and will eventually add more gates near the new chapel into the unusued D concourse. <<< By my recollection, this is the first person who's publicly stated (even if it's in speculative terms) Southwest's expansion in the D Concourse. Can a gate expansion announcement be far behind?

Burton said the chapel will be "very utilitarian."
<<< Translation: It's going to be pretty plain.

"There are going to be the essentials for prayer, worship and meditation," the said, including an altar, chairs and book cases.

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... 4184e.html
2018 Year end Load Factors

WN=Southwest
G4=Allegiant
F9=Frontier
SY=Sun Country

Over 88%
WN Sacramento (SMF) .......... 93.58%
WN Pensacola FL (PNS).......... 92.16%
WN Portland OR (PDX) ..........91.86%
F9 Denver CO (DEN) ..........91.52%
WN San Jose (SJC) ..........91.10%
G4 Punta Gorda FL (PGD).......... 90.16%
WN Seattle WA (SEA) ..........89.92%
WN West Palm Beach FL (PBI).......... 89.44%
G4 St Petersburg/Tampa FL (PIE).......... 89.00%
AS Portland (PDX) ....................88.89% ---- Discontinued in May
WN San Francisco CA (SFO) .......... 88.88%
WN Orlando FL (MCO) ..........88.38%
WN Pittsburgh PA (PIT).......... 88.29%
WN Denver CO (DEN) ..........88.05%

Lowest 5
AA Philadelphia PA (PHL) ..........74.14%
DL New York NY (LGA) ..........73.26%
AA New York NY (LGA).......... 70.57%
AA Chicago IL (ORD) ..........69.44%
DL Cincinnati OH (CVG) ..........59.22%

Others noted that started Oct or later
F9 West Palm Beach (PBI) ..........73.55% -- Started November
SY Fort Myers FL (RSW) ..........64.24% Started October
SY Tampa FL (TPA) ..........70.10% Started November


Full spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
frequentflyer wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:56 pm
But he said he believes Southwest will continue to expand its flights at Lambert and will eventually add more gates near the new chapel into the unusued D concourse. <<< By my recollection, this is the first person who's publicly stated (even if it's in speculative terms) Southwest's expansion in the D Concourse. Can a gate expansion announcement be far behind?

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... 4184e.html
I don't know about an announcement, but jshank mentioned upthread they've already agreed to do 3 more. Airport just hasn't put the renovation work out to bid. If the 2020 date holds true, I could see an announcement sometime this year.
frequentflyer wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:56 pm
Burton said the chapel will be "very utilitarian."[/b] <<< Translation: It's going to be pretty plain.

"There are going to be the essentials for prayer, worship and meditation," the said, including an altar, chairs and book cases.
Given that the old one looked like simple religious furnishings shoved in a disused windowless office anyway I'm neither much surprised nor too disappointed by this. I expect it'll be exactly the same furniture as the previous one, just in a new location. Maybe there'll even be a window. In that case you could buy some stained glass at your favorite local bric-a-brac shop and do better.
The Mayor wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:08 pm
frequentflyer wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:56 pm
But he said he believes Southwest will continue to expand its flights at Lambert and will eventually add more gates near the new chapel into the unusued D concourse. <<< By my recollection, this is the first person who's publicly stated (even if it's in speculative terms) Southwest's expansion in the D Concourse. Can a gate expansion announcement be far behind?

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... 4184e.html
I don't know about an announcement, but jshank mentioned upthread they've already agreed to do 3 more. Airport just hasn't put the renovation work out to bid. If the 2020 date holds true, I could see an announcement sometime this year.
Then I soooo hope they will consider opening the hallway to C again. Fixes so many issues for frequent fliers out of lambert.
The Mayor wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:08 pm
frequentflyer wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:56 pm
But he said he believes Southwest will continue to expand its flights at Lambert and will eventually add more gates near the new chapel into the unusued D concourse. <<< By my recollection, this is the first person who's publicly stated (even if it's in speculative terms) Southwest's expansion in the D Concourse. Can a gate expansion announcement be far behind?

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... 4184e.html
I don't know about an announcement, but jshank mentioned upthread they've already agreed to do 3 more.
Yes, this is what I was referring to when I stated the Reverend is, by my recollection, the first person to publicly mention further expansion. I wouldn't be surprised to find out STL privately informed him of this when the told him of the new chapel location. Otherwise, putting the chapel all the way down by the last functioning gate of E would have seemed disrespectful.

The new chapel location MAY be an indication that they'll completely re-open the old D after SWA takes those additional three gates. This way, the chapel can be accessed by both sides of the concourse.
symphonicpoet wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:17 am
frequentflyer wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:56 pm
Burton said the chapel will be "very utilitarian."[/b] <<< Translation: It's going to be pretty plain.

"There are going to be the essentials for prayer, worship and meditation," the said, including an altar, chairs and book cases.
Given that the old one looked like simple religious furnishings shoved in a disused windowless office anyway I'm neither much surprised nor too disappointed by this. I expect it'll be exactly the same furniture as the previous one, just in a new location. Maybe there'll even be a window. In that case you could buy some stained glass at your favorite local bric-a-brac shop and do better.
I hoped they would have upgraded it to the T1 chapel setting.
I remember looking at an Airport Diagram once of all the gates the airport has and then a list of which ones were in use and which weren't and by which airline - does anyone know where that might be?
[/url]
mjbais1489 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:00 pm
I remember looking at an Airport Diagram once of all the gates the airport has and then a list of which ones were in use and which weren't and by which airline - does anyone know where that might be?
Here's the airport's diagram, which is from 2018. Of course, this doesn't include the newest re-opened gates in C.

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... n-2018.pdf
Here's the Twitter announcement (same on Facebook) about the new T2 Chapel.

STL Airport
‏@flystl
8m8 minutes ago
More
After a brief closure, the Terminal 2 Chapel at #stlairport will re-open this Friday near gate E40.
Clergy with St. Louis Airport Interfaith Chaplaincy #slaic will hold a dedication and open house beginning 11:30 a.m. Mar 22.

Here's the official news release.

https://www.flystl.com/newsroom/stl-new ... m8yd5u7Ig0


Can anybody who's there on Friday take a photo or two?
frequentflyer wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:51 pm
[/url]
mjbais1489 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:00 pm
I remember looking at an Airport Diagram once of all the gates the airport has and then a list of which ones were in use and which weren't and by which airline - does anyone know where that might be?
Here's the airport's diagram, which is from 2018. Of course, this doesn't include the newest re-opened gates in C.

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... n-2018.pdf
Thanks this is awesome. What does "City Gate" mean by the way?
tztag wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:57 am
The Mayor wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:08 pm
frequentflyer wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:56 pm
But he said he believes Southwest will continue to expand its flights at Lambert and will eventually add more gates near the new chapel into the unusued D concourse. <<< By my recollection, this is the first person who's publicly stated (even if it's in speculative terms) Southwest's expansion in the D Concourse. Can a gate expansion announcement be far behind?

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... 4184e.html
I don't know about an announcement, but jshank mentioned upthread they've already agreed to do 3 more. Airport just hasn't put the renovation work out to bid. If the 2020 date holds true, I could see an announcement sometime this year.
Then I soooo hope they will consider opening the hallway to C again. Fixes so many issues for frequent fliers out of lambert.
I'm with you. I don't know that I fully qualify as a frequent flyer but I'm in and out of Lambert once or twice about every 4 to 6 weeks and I always seem to end up in the E33-40 range whenever I depart. Would love to be able to get dropped off at the much less busy Main Terminal and walk down since I don't ever check bags. East Terminal is busy as hell it seems all the time now, which is great. More than anything I'd just love to walk through the old historic terminal building again lol, it's been years.