St. Louis Lambert Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

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jshank83 wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:56 pm
Last year I took pics and video of planes landing on 29 and pics landing on 6 from the cell phone lot. I’ll try to post them tonight.

Did you get the chance to listen to today's meeting? If so, could you please post the highlights?
Landing on 29 pics
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Landing on 29 video
https://youtu.be/v8fbGThVPeM

I can't find my runway 6 pics. Will post if I find them.
Very interesting. Do they land 29 because both 30R and 30L are busy? If not, it seems like it would be a waste of fuel to backtrack taxi.

I'm surprised Southwest would land on 29. Must be a long taxi to the gate.
Oh man, the cell lot has got to be an absolute blast when they're landing 29. That'd have to be so close it would feel like you could reach out and touch the holy Mad Dog. Sweet!
Perseus767 wrote: Very interesting. Do they land 29 because both 30R and 30L are busy? If not, it seems like it would be a waste of fuel to backtrack taxi.

I'm surprised Southwest would land on 29. Must be a long taxi to the gate.
Every runway gets shut down every now and then for maintenance. I was out there watching ops on 11 a few times last summer when they were working on 12L and had it closed. During rush hour they probably have more than a landing a minute for a few stretches every morning and evening, which would exceed the capacity of one runway, particularly when you throw takeoffs in. I expect the landings on 29 were during rush hour when one of the 30s was closed down. (Maybe 30R at about that same time.) It truly was madness with just two runways. (Back in TWA days it was like that all day every day absolutely nonstop during daylight. Which is why the takeoff cue was always a dozen planes deep or more.)
‪Airport commission meeting notes. ‬

‪The airlines (driven by Southwest) are doing their own privitzaion study. ‬

‪Cost per enplaned passenger down to $8.87‬
Thank you for the update.

Does anyone have info on when SWA and the airport will begin construction on T2's new Baggage Claim addition?
jshank83 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:18 pm
‪Airport commission meeting notes. ‬

‪The airlines (driven by Southwest) are doing their own privitzaion study. ‬

‪Cost per enplaned passenger down to $8.87‬
Thank you for posting. I'm delighted to see the passenger cost entering a more manageable range. This bodes well for future growth.
jshank83 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:18 pm
‪Airport commission meeting notes. ‬

‪The airlines (driven by Southwest) are doing their own privitzaion study. ‬

‪Cost per enplaned passenger down to $8.87‬
Are these two unrelated points or did the independent privatization study show that with privatization the cost would go down?
Black02AltimaSE wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:27 am
jshank83 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:18 pm
‪Airport commission meeting notes. ‬

‪The airlines (driven by Southwest) are doing their own privitzaion study. ‬

‪Cost per enplaned passenger down to $8.87‬
Are these two unrelated points or did the independent privatization study show that with privatization the cost would go down?
I would assume Southwest prefers to have a study to push back based on their experiences from Midway & Hobby rebuilds too KC plan on a privately financed terminal paid for by airlines at end of the day.

At same time, I would assume that Southwest has no interest in fixed asset ownership of Terminals like every other airline even though it would be interesting if Southwest would consider a Private/Public deal on Terminal 2. Essentially pay for ownership of terminal, gates and short term parking for additional improvements/parking in return for a reduced enplaned charge.
Black02AltimaSE wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:27 am
jshank83 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:18 pm
‪Airport commission meeting notes. ‬

‪The airlines (driven by Southwest) are doing their own privitzaion study. ‬

‪Cost per enplaned passenger down to $8.87‬
Are these two unrelated points or did the independent privatization study show that with privatization the cost would go down?
They are unrelated. Those were just the two things mentioned in the meeting I found interesting.


Also. Here is a link to my tweet with the planes landing on 6. I lost them off my phone when it broke last year.

https://twitter.com/AviationStl/status/ ... 1085667339
For the next month STL will have EIGHT international flights on Saturdays. While it doesn't get the pub that a Europe flight does, that is still pretty impressive.

2x STL-Toronto Air Canada
2x STL-Cancun Southwest/ Frontier
2x STL-Punta Cana Southwest/Frontier
1x STL-Montego Bay Southwest
2x STL-HUX Volaris (Apple Vacations)

Going to be busy is customs with 6 flights coming in.

Arrival times
Frontier Cancun 1527
Southwest Punta Cana 1640
Frontier Punta Cana 1712
Southwest Montego Bay 1725
Southwest Cancun 1725
Volaris HUX 2123

They are going to have to turn that Southwest Punta Cana flight quick or some of the later flights will be waiting.
jshank83 wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:38 pm
For the next month STL will have EIGHT international flights on Saturdays. While it doesn't get the pub that a Europe flight does, that is still pretty impressive.

2x STL-Toronto Air Canada
2x STL-Cancun Southwest/ Frontier
2x STL-Punta Cana Southwest/Frontier
1x STL-Montego Bay Southwest
2x STL-HUX Volaris (Apple Vacations)

Going to be busy is customs with 6 flights coming in.

Arrival times
Frontier Cancun 1527
Southwest Punta Cana 1640
Frontier Punta Cana 1712
Southwest Montego Bay 1725
Southwest Cancun 1725
Volaris HUX 2123

They are going to have to turn that Southwest Punta Cana flight quick or some of the later flights will be waiting.

Wow, that IS pretty impressive! Presumably, Frontier will pick-up the Apple Montego Bay flights when they're put on the schedule. If so, this would give them three int'l flights out of STL -- Cancun, Punta, and Montego Bay. Add in the Volarius int'l flights and this would be good reason to re-open the Customs area in C. IF Sun Country offers a flight, or two, to the Caribbean getaways over the Winter, 2019 months, this would only add to the usefulness of a C Customs facility.

Southwest would then have E29 for its own int'l use, allowing it to bring more Caribbean flights here. I could see Southwest bringing a Nassau, San Juan, and Belize flight here -- IF they have the planes to do it. I did read, however, that Southwest was planning to add 500 planes over the next 2 decades. This would almost double their fleet size.

There are two big IFs in my scenario, but it's interesting to conjecture. With the current construction in C and the future expanded baggage claim in E, I can see all the above coming together nicely.
^apple cut Montego bay this year. Not sure if they will bring it back next year or not. I could see Southwest expand it instead next year. It would be nice to see them do it 2x or 3x weekly over summer instead of Saturday only.
Hmm. According the KC aviation thread on A.Net, Spirit, Frontier, and Allegiant have yet to sign off on the new terminal plan (which is supposedly breaking ground on 3/25). Wonder if that bodes well for STL/BLV to pick up anything? I would assume mainly with regard to Spirit, as the other two airlines already have an okay presence in the metro, but, you never know.
jshank83 wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:32 pm
^apple cut Montego bay this year.
I thought this was only due to moving away from Swiss Air. I'll reach out to Apple and see if I can get an answer.
Trololzilla wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:43 pm
Hmm. According the KC aviation thread on A.Net, Spirit, Frontier, and Allegiant have yet to sign off on the new terminal plan (which is supposedly breaking ground on 3/25). Wonder if that bodes well for STL/BLV to pick up anything? I would assume mainly with regard to Spirit, as the other two airlines already have an okay presence in the metro, but, you never know.
I can see Frontier taking a hike, or greatly reducing service. By my count Frontier only has three destinations in KC (Cancun, Denver, and Philly). They face competition from at least one other carrier on all three routes.

Allegiant is more heavily invested in KC. They fly to six destinations and are the sole carrier for four of the six -- Destin, Ft. Myers, Punta Gorda, and St. Pete. The other two destinations are Orlando and Phoenix, where two other carriers provide service.

Spirit also provides nonstop service to six destinations -- Detroit, Ft. Lauderdale, Las Vegas, LA, Myrtle Beach, and Orlando. They are the sole carrier for one destination -- Myrtle Beach.
frequentflyer wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:46 am
Trololzilla wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:43 pm
Hmm. According the KC aviation thread on A.Net, Spirit, Frontier, and Allegiant have yet to sign off on the new terminal plan (which is supposedly breaking ground on 3/25). Wonder if that bodes well for STL/BLV to pick up anything? I would assume mainly with regard to Spirit, as the other two airlines already have an okay presence in the metro, but, you never know.
I can see Frontier taking a hike, or greatly reducing service. By my count Frontier only has three destinations in KC (Cancun, Denver, and Philly). They face competition from at least one other carrier on all three routes.

Allegiant is more heavily invested in KC. They fly to six destinations and are the sole carrier for four of the six -- Destin, Ft. Myers, Punta Gorda, and St. Pete. The other two destinations are Orlando and Phoenix, where two other carriers provide service.

Spirit also provides nonstop service to six destinations -- Detroit, Ft. Lauderdale, Las Vegas, LA, Myrtle Beach, and Orlando. They are the sole carrier for one destination -- Myrtle Beach.
Frontier and Allegiant could both easily leave.

You mentioned Frontier only having a couple destinations. 13 flights a week in summer.

Allegiant has more destinations but hardly any flights. Only 1x weekly to Orlando. 4x to Destin. 2x to Tampa/st pete. and Punta Gorda/ft myers only 2x a week. AZA seems to not be coming back next year unless it is starting later than midamerica is. Barely over 1 flight a day for them at 9 a week.
jshank83 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:23 pm
frequentflyer wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:46 am
Trololzilla wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:43 pm
Hmm. According the KC aviation thread on A.Net, Spirit, Frontier, and Allegiant have yet to sign off on the new terminal plan (which is supposedly breaking ground on 3/25). Wonder if that bodes well for STL/BLV to pick up anything? I would assume mainly with regard to Spirit, as the other two airlines already have an okay presence in the metro, but, you never know.

Frontier and Allegiant could both easily leave.

You mentioned Frontier only having a couple destinations. 13 flights a week in summer.

Allegiant has more destinations but hardly any flights. Only 1x weekly to Orlando. 4x to Destin. 2x to Tampa/st pete. and Punta Gorda/ft myers only 2x a week. AZA seems to not be coming back next year unless it is starting later than midamerica is. Barely over 1 flight a day for them at 9 a week.
I agree they could both leave, I should have better expressed myself when I said Allegiant was a little more invested in the market. With more destinations (even seasonal ones) Allegiant could see MCI as a growth opportunity. With Only 3 destinations, I don't think Frontier is as invested in the market. So, IF one airline would leave, I'd pick Frontier.

Also, I finally heard back from Apple Vacations and, as expected, I got the company line about Montego Bay, "no" today doesn't necessarily mean "no" tomorrow.

Here's the reply.

trips@applevacations.com
Mar 10 at 7:23 AM

Good Morning,

Thank you for contacting Apple Vacations
At this time there is no indication of a schedule for flights into Montego Bay from St. Louis.
If something was to change with this, it will be posted on our website under the flights tab and then drop down for St. Louis.

I'm sorry I couldn't help you further with this.
Thank you again for contacting Apple Vacations
Nothing of incredible value, just a pleasant surprise for me. I flew Alaskan round trip to Seattle this weekend. Thursday’s flight to Seattle was sold out with 20ish waitlisted. The flight from STL to San Diego (the flight before Seattle) was also sold out.
Monday’s flight from SEA to STL was sold out with 10-15 waitlisted.
Anyone ever noticed Google Earth just so happened to have pictures of Lambert on a day an F-4 Phantom crashed?
If you go back in historical imagery to April 7, 1990, and you can see it veered just off runway 12R.

I just thought that was an interesting coincidence.
I can't say as I'd ever noticed that, but . . . you're right. I see the mess and the crash trucks. Darn shame I can only see part of the airport that day. I expect it made ops a mess for TWA. Glad to see no one died in that particular mess.
Perseus767 wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:17 pm
Anyone ever noticed Google Earth just so happened to have pictures of Lambert on a day an F-4 Phantom crashed?
If you go back in historical imagery to April 7, 1990, and you can see it veered just off runway 12R.

I just thought that was an interesting coincidence.
It may not be a coincidence. Google Earth has a cluster of imagery of New Orleans around the time of Hurricane Katrina. You can see a near day-by-day impact on the Lower Ninth Ward. They also have imagery of lower manhattan on 9/11/01. I can't think of any others right now but I'm sure there's more.
Flights today are taking off runway 24 due to the high winds.
Some LF numbers

International Loads are out for September

WOW 63%
Southwest to Cancun 80%
Frontier to Cancun 65%
Air Canada 77%

December Load Factors

Newer route numbers:
Frontier to JAX 84%
Frontier to West Palm 75%
Sun Country to Fort Myers 65%
Sun Country to Tampa 74%
Southwest to Hartford 78%
Sacramento still yet to have a month under 90%

-----------------

Final 2018 numbers for BLV are out.

302,409 passengers on the year.
up 23% over 2017

In the top 200 busiest airports in the United States now.

Which means both STL and BLV combined for 15,934,995 passengers in 2018.
^ Sacramento is in a spot that if you don't mind a short drive, hour and half to two hours or a typical commuter for a lot of people out here, you can be in San Fran, Wine Country whether it be Napa or Sonoma in one direction and on a pretty nice slope whether it be Squaw Valley or Heavenly so forth. Silicon Valley is a longer hike especially in traffic, commute hours. I think Sacramento is catching on as an alternate airport for the Bay Area as well as very convenient airport to fly in for Tahoe.

I also wonder if Centene has its new Sacramento/California office up and running. Maybe a nice pickup of business travelers to Sacramento itself