Interesting but I just don't know about another more west Westport. If they can develop something where the auto isn't absolutely essential for movement in, out and around, then it could have a market. But it just seems like a nicer development off another exit ramp. Could they find a way to build a street grid and connect it to downtown St. Charles and Hwy. 94?

Connecting to downtown St. Charles is difficult with the highway being the dividing line and the Katy Trail being the only real connection unless a road could be built underneath the bridge span.

Yes, I was thinking there was a road under the bridge but it's only the trail?

Main Street actually connects on both sides of the highway by going underneath the bridge. It connects to S. River Rd (which changes to 5th St.) just south of Quik Trip.

m2tbone wrote:Main Street actually connects on both sides of the highway by going underneath the bridge. It connects to S. River Rd (which changes to 5th St.) just south of Quik Trip.

This is true. There is also talk of a future streetcar that would connect this development with Main Street, New Town, the Arena, the Casino, and the Convention center. I'm doubtful that such a massive line will actually be built (it would be one of the longest streetcar lines in the nation) but it would be pretty sweet if it did. It may even spur a future metrolink connection, which would be doubly sweet.

another good urban proposal in St. Charles...looks like this suburb is growing up.

Honestly, a streetcar wouldn't have much ridership unless acting as a localized distributor or feeder line to/from a regional MetroLink line. I mean really, do a significant number of New Town residents work or even make regular trips to the casino?



But sadly, the only thing that will ever spur a MetroLink extension to St. Charles is if the voters in that county ever pass a funding source. In the mid-1990s, St. Charles County voters twice rejected a sales tax increase for MetroLink, despite the corridor identified as a "Tier I" priority along with St. Clair and Cross-County, both of which have seen implementation due to respective half-cent and quarter-cent sales tax levies enacted in the mid-1990s.

Nice looking project. I wish it were in the City.

I guess the tourist economy is not sizable enough for a fully self-supported funding or even decent ridership for a streetcar, but a right-of-way should be made even if Metro has to pay for it.



If cities want an easement they have to pay for it.

Dolan v. City of Tigard and Lucas case.

a right-of-way should be made even if Metro has to pay for it

Why should Metro purchase right-of-way within a county that gives nothing towards its operations? The State of Missouri subsidizes less than one-percent of Metro's operations, the bulk of which then falls on St. Louis City and County half-cent sales tax receipts. A similar tax measure has never passed in St. Charles County. In the mid-1990s, St. Charles County's repeated defeat ultimately killed plans for expanding MetroLink west of the Missouri River, and led to Metro even slashing bus routes like the former #194 St. Charles Limited in its largest recent cuts of October 2001, when 10% of bus service was cut system-wide (and 15% loss in riders).



But it's somewhat a moot point really, if the quote refers to a localized St. Charles City streetcar and not a regional MetroLink line crossing the Missouri because streetcars typically operate in public rights-of-way, or streets, thereby rarely needing right-of-way acquisition.

SMSPlanstu wrote:I guess the tourist economy is not sizable enough for a fully self-supported funding or even decent ridership for a streetcar, but a right-of-way should be made even if Metro has to pay for it.



If cities want an easement they have to pay for it.

Dolan v. City of Tigard and Lucas case.

Very little if any right of way would be needed. It runs on the street.

I like what I'm seeing in Saint Charles, city proper at least. If only we as a region could reign in the sprawl west of O'Fallon, Wentzville, and Lake Saint Louis, I'd really be excited...



With this plan to redevelop the Noah's Ark site, the proposed development by Michael Sellenschuetter to its immediate south, the thriving downtown area, an expanded Ameristar Casino, plans to redevelop Frenchtown, and the ongoing growth of New Town, Saint Charles is truly redefining itself.



To me it's only appropriate that the one city in the county with significant history and character should look to successful models from the past to define future development. And it looks as though local leaders realize it cannot, nor should it, compete with Saint Peters and O'Fallon for strip malls and cul-de-sac subdivisions.



I've been critical of New Town in the past, mostly due to the faux Pleasantville-like vibe there. However, after reading an article in the April edition of St. Louis Magazine, I must say I see the development in a whole new light. I also have newfound respect for Greg Whittaker, the developer responsible for New Town and the Noah's Ark site redevelopment. New Town's faux feel and atmosphere will ultimately fade, I believe, and I think it will be much more desirable and sustainable than its suburban cookie-cutter counterparts elsewhere in the county.



Hopefully, Whittaker and the city will work together to ensure connectivity between the downtown riverfront and the Noah's Ark site. It will be a successful project with or without such a connection, but to me the opportunity is there to build a strong core stretching from New Town on the north to the Family Arena in the south (the Sellenschuetter proposal would extend south toward the Page Avenue Extension).



I don't foresee many urban dwellers from this forum moving to Saint Charles even with several urban developments underway or proposed, but if these projects are completed as planned, I think many of us will see the county seat in a whole new light.

One of the coolest things, seemingly, is the INCLUSION of a long proposed "freedom center" or the pool that is desinged for people with physical disabilities.... according to the website:

http://www.showmeaquatics.org/index.html

its going to be one of the best of its kind in the world. Helping out the physically disadvantaged is a very worthy cause....



Ive been following the freedom center for a number of years.....

Anything to get the dilapidated Noah's Ark the hell out of there!! That partially sun-faded gray elephant creeps me out everytime I drive by it. Dare I say I'd want a surface lot instead?? LOL j/k, maybe Ameristar needs it for more parking

According to the news last night, the St. Charles city planning commision gave the green light for the project to Whittaker. I didn't see any specific dates as to a start or an estimated completion date. Anybody have any idea?

^At the expense of the City, of course.

Framer wrote:^At the expense of the City, of course.

But any development in the region can be seen as a good time - give people who might consider moving to the area options. BEST for the CITY is development in the city -- but along the same lines the city should just annex the whole metro area - then the city would benefit from everything good happening.

If it curbs the current spread of houses crossing St. Charles County, I'm all for it. People won't leave St. Charles for St. Louis City to live in a highrise, but they might live in a more dense area of St. Charles if given the option. I don't care if this gets built, honestly...but I don't view it as a negative for St. Louis city at all.

trent wrote:If it curbs the current spread of houses crossing St. Charles County, I'm all for it. People won't leave St. Charles for St. Louis City to live in a highrise, but they might live in a more dense area of St. Charles if given the option. I don't care if this gets built, honestly...but I don't view it as a negative for St. Louis city at all.

I agree trent. I grew up in St. Chuck (and unfortunately still live there but that will change soon) and don't think it will necessarily hurt the city.



The other thing I'm interested in seeing is the development start to happen around the Page Ave. extension - oh wait, there already are rows and rows of the same looking houses and condos right across the river in STC county. How long before Creve Coeur or Maryland Heights start to see bids for the areas around the park and lake where 364 runs right through up to the river? I'm sure Walgreens will jump right on that.



BTW, no offense to Walgreens but there are literally 5 of them within a 4 mile radius of my house....evidently St. Charles' finest do need their meds/birth control at 3 in the morning!

finally something good coming to St Charles! hopefully St Peters and O'Fallon will follow.

Creve Coeur park was expanded due to the Highway extension and park lovers have much more to enjoy with over one-hundred acres of forest, marsh, and wetland. This dispels the idea that the land south of 364 is open to development because that's parkland.

absolut355 wrote:


BTW, no offense to Walgreens but there are literally 5 of them within a 4 mile radius of my house....evidently St. Charles' finest do need their meds/birth control at 3 in the morning!

That's nothing new to St. Charles. There's 3 Walgreens within walking distance of my place. If you want to expand to a 4 mile radius, I'd bet there are more.