Highland Walk - 5719 Arsenal Street [Southwest Garden]

urbanstlouis · PostDec 31, 2005#12005-12-31T20:44+00:00

Does anyone know anything about the proposed Highland Walk at 5719 Arsenal Street in the Southwest Garden Neighborhood? This looks to be happening right across the street from the <A HREF="http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t=48">Parc Ridge Estates</A> deveopment at 5700 Arsenal Street. There will be a sketch plan review for this project at the Planning Commision's monthly meeting this next Wednesday, January 04, 2006.

You can view this and other items being discussed at this meeting, which is open to the public, at the following link:

http://stlcin.missouri.org/publicmeetin ... ingNum=898

southslider · PostJan 03, 2006#22006-01-03T15:59+00:00

There was a black-and-white front elevation of this development in the Southwest Garden neighborhood quarterly newsletter for January 2006. Extra copies are available at the neighborhood office at 4950 Southwest Avenue, just west of South Kingshighway.

The development proposal is for five, two-story, attached townhomes with basement, front-access garages. There is no alley on this City block, and this development is within the middle of such alley-less block on the north side of Arsenal, just west of Sublette Park.

The brick exterior townhomes will have varied front walls for window bays and recessed entry porches, giving visual interest. These townhomes will be across from townhomes within the Parc Estates development. However, Parc Estates' townhomes will have their garage access from the new internal streets within that subdivision, unlike this alley-less block just to its north.

urbanstlouis · PostJan 04, 2006#32006-01-04T18:16+00:00

southslider wrote:There was a black-and-white front elevation of this development in the Southwest Garden neighborhood quarterly newsletter for January 2006. Extra copies are available at the neighborhood office at 4950 Southwest Avenue, just west of South Kingshighway.

Thanks! I did get by there today and picked up the quarterly newsletter. Here is the front elevation and the short description on the project found in the newsletter. I mentioned this website to someone in the neighborhood office while I was there, so maybe we will hear more from them as updates become available.

Highland Homes has submitted plans to build five attached townhomes at 5719 Arsenal. Each home would have a two car garage accessible from the front of the home on Arsenal. The frontage of each structure would be off-set to give a more interesting visual appeal to the structures. Highland Homes has built some homes in Dogtown. Several SWGNA board members toured one of their existing structures and we were impressed with the finished product. For more info call Highland Homes 314-863-2845.

markofucity · PostJan 04, 2006#42006-01-04T21:30+00:00

I like it ... At least they have parking beneath the building as opposed to seperate garages.

urbanstlouis · PostJan 04, 2006#52006-01-04T21:58+00:00

markofucity wrote:I like it ... At least they have parking beneath the building as opposed to seperate garages.

The newsletter mentioned Highland Homes having built some homes in Dogtown. I actually took some photos of those this last summer while they were under construction. Because there aren't a lot of alleys in Dogtown and the lots are smaller, they are building a lot of homes in that area with garages beneath. Here are four of those homes...

I believe the homes I photographed above were on Prather Avenue. If you go to the Highland Homes website at http://www.highlandhomesinc.com and look under "Available Properties, you will see them listed there. It looks like 3 of the 4 shown above have already sold in the $300,000 to $325,000 range. Anyway, I bring these homes up because it looks like having parking beneath the building is what Highland Homes specializes in and the photos show some of their recent work.

MattnSTL · PostJan 05, 2006#62006-01-05T00:09+00:00

What I like about the homes on Prather is that they are not just vinyll boxes with brick fronts. I'm interested to see a more detailed rendering of the building planned for Arsenal. As it is, it appears to be mostly brick on front.

framer · PostJan 05, 2006#72006-01-05T07:27+00:00

This all sounds/looks very promising.

marmar · PostJan 05, 2006#82006-01-05T08:19+00:00

Considering these houses have garages in the front, I think they look pretty darn sweet. They remind me of some of the houses in San Francisco with front garages beneath, only these have a more St. Louis look because of the brick. I think they fit in and look great.

xing · PostJan 05, 2006#92006-01-05T08:21+00:00

Not bad. Looks pretty good.

urbanstlouis · PostJan 05, 2006#102006-01-05T08:27+00:00

Marmar wrote:Considering these houses have garages in the front, I think they look pretty darn sweet. They remind me of some of the houses in San Francisco with front garages beneath, only these have a more St. Louis look because of the brick. I think they fit in and look great.

I think part of it is also that the garages in front are set slightly below grade so you are not struck visually with a huge garage door staring back at you. The homes also keep the front doors above grade so you have the traditional front stoop that so many St. Louis homes have.

marmar · PostJan 05, 2006#112006-01-05T08:40+00:00

Yes, great point, urbanstlouis. Although the ONLY thing I think might be an improvement is if the color of the garage doors were a darker color, as white against the dark brick kind of draws the eye there...but that color would probably have to be somewhere else on the house to prevent it from looking "hodge podge". But otherwise, they look so great, I'm not gonna complain!!

Expat · PostJan 05, 2006#122006-01-05T13:33+00:00

I have to say that I like the townhouse renderings and the pics of single families being built - despite the front garage. The good brickwork all around makes the difference.

debaliviere · PostJan 05, 2006#132006-01-05T14:56+00:00

What is currently on the site where this project will be built? Existing homes?

brickandmortar · PostJan 05, 2006#142006-01-05T15:36+00:00

5719 Arsenal is a vacant lot

arch city · PostJan 05, 2006#152006-01-05T23:30+00:00

Nice looking homes.

suburban lou · PostJan 11, 2006#162006-01-11T17:02+00:00

5-unit townhouse development planned on Arsenal

Jim Merkel

Of the Suburban Journals

Southwest City Journal

01/11/2006

A 12,000-square foot lot at 5719 Arsenal St. is the site of a planned five-unit attached townhouse development.

The St. Louis Planning Commission last week approved a sketch plan for the Highland Walk Planned Unit Development, being developed by Highland Homes.

The project is across the street from where 5700 Property LLC is building 58 homes at the fomer site of the Truman Restorative Center and it is also near the Langhorst Ollie Apartments and other condominiums and townhouses.

The Board of Alderman will have to approve legislation establishing a planned unit development district for the project. As part of the process, the aldermanic Housing Urban Development and Zoning Committee will have to hold a public hearing.

The area is zoned "A" for single family dwellings, which requires lot sizes of at least 4,000 square feet.

As a condition of the planning commission's approval, the developer will have to provide adequate covering along the back of the lot. The developer plans to put in architectural berms and landscaping.

The developer also must reduce the front and rear elevation of the building.

In addition, the developer must show that the city Street Department has given its final approval to five curb cuts along Arsenal Street.

The Street Department has given permission for the curb cuts, but said the developer must pay to move a light standard that is in the way.

The units will have 2,100-2,800 square feet and have two stories and two-car, front-entry garages. The price per unit will be $250,000-$300,000.

The developers plan to apply for a 10-year tax abatement. In tax abatement, a property is taxed at a predevelopment rate.

Bob Shallenberger and John Cavanaugh, partners in Highland Homes, said the Southwest Garden Neighborhood Association has approved the project.

Read More

southslider · PostJan 11, 2006#172006-01-11T17:22+00:00

I don't particularly like adding curb cuts to our streets, or front-access driveways, but this block doesn't have an alley, and the site, or parcel, is within the middle of its block, not on any corner.

Fortunately, this section of Arsenal is four lanes wide. Such arrangement allows through traffic to still travel within the center lanes, while cars coming from new driveways can essentially back up into the wide, outer parking lanes.

suburban lou · PostJan 19, 2006#182006-01-19T21:03+00:00

Color rendering

http://www.realtor.com/Prop/1054848720

framer · PostJan 20, 2006#192006-01-20T07:17+00:00

Look at all those stairs!

Expat · PostJan 20, 2006#202006-01-20T15:00+00:00

There is a group of townhouses going up around the corner from where I live that have exactly the same set up. One big difference, Highland Walk is selling from $200,000 to $300,000. A bargain really. The ones near me (in Maryland) are starting at $750,000. Actually, Highland Walk is nicer because of the variety in facades. The way these are set up, you get a lot of house on a small lot. I think alleys & rear garages are better for the streetscape, but there is an upside to a front gargage to the homeowner. Since you don't park in the back, it leaves space for a little backyard. And with a tall fence and brick patio, you can get a nice private courtyard effect.

metzgda · PostJan 20, 2006#212006-01-20T15:17+00:00

Looks like they'll have just one car garages? That's a good thing considering there is no alley access - it makes the development look more dense as well. I wish the new homes across the street were more urban in nature.

southslider · PostJan 20, 2006#222006-01-20T16:19+00:00

Maybe the garages will offer tandem parking, or parking for two cars with one parked in front of another. This allows for only a one-car garage door, but a deeper garage. Of course, that means moving cars, but just having an attached garage in an urban environment is usually worth that added hassle.

Expat · PostJan 20, 2006#232006-01-20T16:39+00:00

Actually, I would prefer to have the garage go one car deep and have a nice little family room or rec room in the back facing the garden.

southslider · PostJan 20, 2006#242006-01-20T17:13+00:00

If I were single, I'd like Expat's preference too for a lower-level family/media room, and then one-car garages are fine. But the price of these townhomes mean the likely future households will have two wage-earners.

Though three bus routes all serve this block, the income needed to purchase these townhomes likely means their future occupants will have low transit preferences, at least in the rubber-tired form. Combine these factors, and we're talking about mostly two-car households living in these townhomes. Granted, one could park in the garage and one in the driveway. But if someone in the driveway has to move to let someone out of the garage anyway, you might as well have such tandem parking setup fully indoors, leaving a guest spot on the driveway. Plus, the curb-cuts won't leave much on-street spots directly in front of these townhomes.

urban review st. louis · PostJan 20, 2006#252006-01-20T17:17+00:00

I agree with most of the comments here, especially the one suggesting the garage doors be a darker color so your eye is not drawn to the big white box.

But I'd like to see developers consider a different model for future projects of this size. In cities like Chicago or Seattle they'd never allow this many curb cuts and garage doors. You virually eliminate on-street parking as a result. In those cities they'd let you have a single curb cut and then you put your parking underneath the whole building to serve the units. Not quite as private as your own garage but it really makes a big difference.