urbanSTL

And we already have a suburban office park west of the convention center, in the Cole Street/Convention Plaza area.



It's easy to forget about because it's probably the lamest part of downtown.

DeBaliviere wrote:And we already have a suburban office park west of the convention center, in the Cole Street/Convention Plaza area.



It's easy to forget about because it's probably the lamest part of downtown.

And don't forget the very suburban area around Jefferson and Market: Wells Fargo, FBI, MSD, plus the hotels.



Yeah, those suburban-style buildings sure do a great job of connecting downtown to the rest of the City and create a vibrant, exciting atmosphere.

Museum plaza isn't being built and was never going to be a supertall. I believe it was just over 700 ft.



I think that having a brand new supertall downtown wouldn't necessarily change outsiders views of stl as much as it would drastically change st. Louisan's views of downtown. As they in turn consider downtown more exciting, they will come in larger #'s, more will be built, and it will become a self-fullfilling prophecy. It is at this point that other's views will begin to change.

I'm not sure cleveland or detroit have the momentum building as we in do in downtown stl to allow a tower such as this to be the tipping factor we all hope it to be.

As lame as a 'county type' development would be, I think most reasonable people would take anything over the railroad tracks and the eyesores that accompany that part of the city. I would love to have something that fits into the mold, but something is better than nothing. When we had all of the grandiose visions of Ballpark Village, we didn't think a softball field would be there in May 2009. We likely would have taken a scaled down version if we knew what we know now. I would take anything involving a lake at this point. NOTHING gets done easily in this town.

^ i disagree. nothing is a whole lot easier to undo than "anything". i'd rather those tracks sit there for another 10 or 20 years while DT continues to densify around them. then, when demand is greater, that land can be developed properly (i'm ALL for a well-integrated greenway). at least i can look out over the tracks onto a lovely view of DT from the jefferson ave bridge and be reminded of the city's industrial heritage, rather than look out over office parks and be reminded of how parking lots and cubicles make me dead inside.

Watching the video I don't think he meant a suburban office park, rather I think he was saying that a new tower could be placed next to a park like lake with wildlife etc. Indicating that if a company likes the idea of their offices overlooking a lake and parkspace (such as in an office park) this could be done here on a much larger scale. You would have the best of both worlds (DT address, close to ballpark and DT attractions etc, and a tranquill park with a lake.)



Just my thoughts....

Lake, skating rink, office park, signature office tower, urban development rivaling the World Trade Center Complex.... My question is who the heck thinks UP and the TRRA are just going to give up these tracks for nothing? These lines still considered mainline and kept to a high standard, they are most certainly utilized. The railroads know they hold all the cards in a situation that rich people might throwing money around– my bet is they are going to want a new yard and new river crossing or something outrageous before they just hand them over. Then they’d be happy to just let you have Metrolink/Amtrak in that corridor with no freight rail. I can’t imagine that yard is as productive as a new intermodal facility elsewhere in the metro – closer to its actual customers. They gain nothing from being downtown except the value of the potential trade. Is there a piece of this story that I am missing? Speculation is nice, especially from someone who has put money where his mouth is like Kevin, but even he can't build anything on what isn’t controlled.



Any my take on the whole interview was – for now don't worry about the development there. Market prices around a new lake downtown will dictate that either high density or zero density… I don’t think the real estate prices this would fetch would be comparable to Manchester & Ballas. The overall impression I got was about the creation of an urban park with distinctive class that blends into the complex urban fabric. Right now the mall is an inhibitor – in the future it could be a driver.

I think Kevin is playing this about right. He has the Cupples development going with a nice little piece of property that a slender mixed used tower would fit right in. I believe Gone Corporate did a nice job pointing out where such a tower would go in previous posts. St. Louis lands some decent China deals and Kevin has 300,000 to 400,000 sq ft of Class A office space overlooking Busch Field (not to mention great freeway and Metrolink Access to the airport and hopefully high speed rail to Chicago in near future). Can't sell space a hotel chain but need more office space, reconfigure a few floors. Can't sell more condos, convert floors from hotel to condo's or apartments, etc.



Maybe this vision is in Kevin's head- Cards are playing the Cubs. So a few Cubs fans are coming in on the high speed rail after playing hooky that afternoon (heck, you have to play hooky to make most home Cub games). The fans have rooms reserved for the night in his tower. Maybe a pregame steak at JBucks. In the meantime, A corporate executive working out of Kevin's tower entertains a few out of town clients with box seats to the game. The clients had flown into town and used Metrolink that morming to get to their afternoon meetings in a conference room overlooking Busch Field. The secretary has rooms reserved for the clients. Maybe the coporation has even boughten a few of the Kevin's condos to facilitate out of town employees. I think this vision is very doable within the next five to ten years.



The only that Kevin has to fear is DeWitt firing Cordish and actually building something. Ok, not such a big fear.

tbspqr wrote: My question is who the heck thinks UP and the TRRA are just going to give up these tracks for nothing? These lines still considered mainline and kept to a high standard, they are most certainly utilized. The railroads know they hold all the cards in a situation that rich people might throwing money around– my bet is they are going to want a new yard and new river crossing or something outrageous before they just hand them over.

A first phase of the lake does not necessarily interfere with the tracks. East of Tucker their is just one track (and a sea of parking) that has been incorporated into the drawings. The complication with the tracks is when they want to extend the greenway West of Tucker.

phoaddict wrote:^ It also says something about the will of Louisville people, that something of such vision would be passed and developed.



Great job Louisville! So impressed.

I think the merger of Louisville with surrounding Jefferson County, Kentucky is an even greater testament to the will of the people there. And I would argue it's done even more to change the perception of Louisville, as a city that once had about 250,000 residents, and a place that was at least in some danger of being passed up by Lexington one day instantly became a city of almost 700,000 people.



It's a transformation that St. Louis could and should make, but cities like Louisville, Indianapolis, and Nashville that merged with their surrounding counties did not have the challenge of complete separation from the counties with which they merged. There are still many challenges, and unfortunately, wounds, that date back to 1876 and aren't going away anytime soon.



Sorry for the threadjack. As I've said before, I have nothing against the idea or concept of a supertall structure here, but I think there are so many more interesting things that could be done to improve the attractiveness, quality of life, and perception of downtown St. Louis instead.

Long time without updates on this one, but I just spotted the Louisville, KY/Jefferson Co merger item above. I believe a city/county merger would make a lot of sense for St. Louis, but was interested to hear that a lot of people in Louisville don't believe the merger is making much of a difference in their area. (I work at KMOV Channel 4, and one of the reporters is working on this story: that will air 4/15)

But back on the subject of a supertall's impact... it will be interesting to see how (or if) the perception of Oklahoma City changes as the Devon tower is constructed. In my mind, it will boost the perception of that area... but will that be the case for people who have little to no interest in skyscrapers (most people) ?

This is one of those projects to where it is dead for years on years but then reappears. It will return possibly because of how Downtown is improving in many ways. If this building were to rise, I would want it to include everything. Make less than a 1/4 of it be Office decide the rest of it into Residential, Hotel and Multi Use other zones. The website for Blue Urban still features a building and the website appears to be updated with new Loft projects. So who knows. I am hoping that this will happen since the economy appears to be doing well.

This was never a serious proposal. The McGowans never had the ability to build anything close to this. Anybody can commission a dramatic rendering and pretend that they're gonna build it, but that doesn't make it so.

This is one dead horse that really needs to be left alone.

framer wrote:This was never a serious proposal. The McGowans never had the ability to build anything close to this. Anybody can commission a dramatic rendering and pretend that they're gonna build it, but that doesn't make it so.

This is one dead horse that really needs to be left alone.

I never did see or find the dramatic rendering. Wish I did.

Frank Gehry No Longer Allowed To Make Sandwiches For Grandkids
http://www.theonion.com/graphic/frank-g ... hes-f-8716

I know this thread is pretty much irrelevant and of dead now, but here's a reimagining I did of the Tower. Near this vacant lot, there is many restaurants, along with attractions.

I think this lot would be a nice place for it to go. Maybe with something to help the already existing community there?

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That might actually be perfect, there are so many vacant Lots in downtown west, I wonder how this building would look in the skyline though? Some of the taller buildings aren't even visible from the river maybe bump it up to be 314m, pretty tall, realistic to fill, and has a meaning too.

Maybe change up the design a bit, to fit more with Downtown's other architecture.

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Surrounded by traffic sewers, severed from the rest of the city is a bad location.