Ghost Signs

debaliviere · PostJul 12, 2006#12006-07-12T14:39+00:00

Here's an article from the Suburban Journals about efforts in Dogtown to restore a "ghost sign" that once graced the wall of a pub (now a frame shop).

I think this is great and would love to see more of these old wall signs restored. Can anyone think of any ghost signs they'd like to see brought back to life?

The writing is on the wall – sort of

Shawn Clubb

Of the Suburban Journals

South City Journal,South Side Journal,Southwest City Journal

07/12/2006

There's a faint apparition in Dogtown that some have seen outside a frame shop.

It's an old sign painted on the brick outer wall of the shop near Seamus McDaniel's, which touts a brew from a bygone era, "Alpen Brau."

Wall signs used to be common, but now all that can be seen of most of them are faint images of what they once proclaimed. Some people now call them ghost signs.

The Dogtown Historical Society wants to bring the ghost sign at 1206 Tamm Ave. back to life. The building houses the Dog Town Gallery and Frame Shop, but the wall sign marks it as having been a saloon.

Link

the central scrutinizer · PostJul 12, 2006#22006-07-12T14:46+00:00

I haven't looked lately, but in what condition is the Switzers sign on the Landing?

stlgasm · PostJul 12, 2006#32006-07-12T14:52+00:00

I'd like to see the wall signs restored along Washington Avenue.

Regarding old signs (both painted and hanging signs), I am disappointed that St. Louis hasn't saved more of them. For such an old city, there are very few old signs to be found. New York has a ridiculous amount of cool old signage, and even Chicago puts us to shame. Old hanging signs definitely enhance the urban streetscape. Where have all our old signs gone?

There seems to be some bullsh*t silly ordinance that restricts hanging signs in many neighborhoods. Our commercial districts seem to have an overabundance of cheesy awnings with identical fonts that make for a very boring streetscape. It's time to get a little edgier and more varied with our commercial facades. A recent trip to Chicago made this glaringly clear to me.

matt · PostJul 12, 2006#42006-07-12T14:53+00:00

This is a wonderful idea. I've got a friend who bought a collection of photographs taken around St. Louis in the 1930s-40s of advertisement billboards. It may be good to see some of them reproduced also.

debaliviere · PostJul 12, 2006#52006-07-12T15:10+00:00

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:I haven't looked lately, but in what condition is the Switzers sign on the Landing?

The last time I took a good look at it, it appeared to be in pretty decent shape.

I totally agree with Gasm - we need more interesting signs. The Knickerbocker is great, and I like the new sign at Windows on Washington. I'd love to see more neon and other attention-getting signs.

My favorite ghost signs are the ones on the side of the King Bee Building:

(Photo from Built St. Louis)

tb1000 · PostJul 12, 2006#62006-07-12T15:33+00:00

There is going to be a large neon sign at Lucas Lofts that will be part of the bowling alley.

trent · PostJul 12, 2006#72006-07-12T18:03+00:00

There's a building down Washington, about 17th street on the north...I think it had an old wrigleys gum sign that looks pretty cool.

And I agree on the signage. I want more. Some new signs that I really like are WOW and Nectar. We need more fun signs.

buckethead · PostJul 12, 2006#82006-07-12T18:54+00:00

trent wrote:There's a building down Washington, about 17th street on the north...I think it had an old wrigleys gum sign that looks pretty cool.

And I agree on the signage. I want more. Some new signs that I really like are WOW and Nectar. We need more fun signs.

King Bee. There's a picture of it 2 posts up.

debaliviere · PostJul 12, 2006#92006-07-12T18:58+00:00

I'm also a fan of the A-B sign painted on the side of B.B.'s on Broadway. Perhaps our friends at Schlafly could commission their own sign on the side of another local tavern?

buckethead · PostJul 12, 2006#102006-07-12T19:07+00:00

DeBaliviere wrote:I'm also a fan of the A-B sign painted on the side of B.B.'s on Broadway. Perhaps our friends at Schlafly could commission their own sign on the side of another local tavern?

I actually think there is a law or ordinance against new advertisments being painted on buildings. I heard this from a building owner but have never bothered to verify it.

stellar · PostJul 12, 2006#112006-07-12T20:49+00:00

I'm so torn. I love the old signs. But if you open that door I can only imagine the kind of Viagra or Red Bull crapvertising that you would start to see.

nicolankford · PostJul 12, 2006#122006-07-12T21:22+00:00

it's all a matter of money though. the huge seat cover neon sign on gravois a little south of grand is awesome and the owner said that in its day it was really something but kids used it for target practice in the eighties and now the cost of both repairing the damage and keeping it lit is too great. what should be done is to get together an group to hunt down these signs (and gravois alone has a lot of them-comparitively) and figure out some way to get money out of people to light them up again. not very likely of course, but didn't metropolis do that for the knickerbocker sign on washington? oh if only.

matt · PostJul 12, 2006#132006-07-12T21:34+00:00

Maybe its time for the city to come up with new commercial district-based signage and lighting policies? Then guidelines and a pool of funds to help owners make improvements. The current awning policy is outdated.

the central scrutinizer · PostJul 12, 2006#142006-07-12T21:43+00:00

nicolankford wrote:what should be done is to get together an group to hunt down these signs....

I'll sign up for a group to hunt down the little morons who used them for target practice.

urbanstlouis · PostJul 12, 2006#152006-07-12T21:56+00:00

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:I'll sign up for a group to hunt down the little morons who used them for target practice.

Let's keep derogatory remarks off this forum, whether it be directed towards someone on or off this fourm.

threeonefour · PostJul 13, 2006#162006-07-13T14:25+00:00

STLgasm wrote:I'd like to see the wall signs restored along Washington Avenue.

Regarding old signs (both painted and hanging signs), I am disappointed that St. Louis hasn't saved more of them. For such an old city, there are very few old signs to be found. New York has a ridiculous amount of cool old signage, and even Chicago puts us to shame. Old hanging signs definitely enhance the urban streetscape. Where have all our old signs gone?

There seems to be some bullsh*t silly ordinance that restricts hanging signs in many neighborhoods. Our commercial districts seem to have an overabundance of cheesy awnings with identical fonts that make for a very boring streetscape. It's time to get a little edgier and more varied with our commercial facades. A recent trip to Chicago made this glaringly clear to me.

I agree completely. It's time to revisit our ordinances- and it seems to me that a distinction could be made between restoring old signage and adding new advertising.

the central scrutinizer · PostJul 13, 2006#172006-07-13T14:33+00:00

ThreeOneFour wrote:I agree completely. It's time to revisit our ordinances- and it seems to me that a distinction could be made between restoring old signage and adding new advertising.

Define "restore". Does restore mean repainting it? The Switzer's sign looks neat because it is old and fading. If "restore" means repainting it, would it be as admired?

Is there a way to "restore" these signs by simply preserving them? Somehow keep the Switzer's sign the way it is and protect it from degrading further.

threeonefour · PostJul 13, 2006#182006-07-13T15:09+00:00

^ Good question. Frankly, I'm torn.

On one hand, I see the appeal of completely restoring the sign. OTOH, I really like the weathered look of ghost signs, and I'd advocate some way to treat the signs to prevent further fading (if such a thing is possible, of course).

trent · PostJul 13, 2006#192006-07-13T22:06+00:00

buckethead wrote:
trent wrote:There's a building down Washington, about 17th street on the north...I think it had an old wrigleys gum sign that looks pretty cool.

And I agree on the signage. I want more. Some new signs that I really like are WOW and Nectar. We need more fun signs.

King Bee. There's a picture of it 2 posts up.

You know what? I completely glazed over that post, I saw 'Bee' and immediately thought it was Bee Hat.

Maybe I need to read a little more closely in the future.

shinpickle · PostJul 14, 2006#202006-07-14T00:07+00:00

another shot of the King Bee building

more urban history please!

jcity · PostJul 14, 2006#212006-07-14T02:51+00:00

why don't we preserve these old ones, if possible, and allow or provide incentives for new ones. What happened to all the electric advertising signs that used to be everywhere downtown? How much cooler are advertisments on buildings than on billboards

framer · PostJul 14, 2006#222006-07-14T04:46+00:00

I'm with Scrutinizer. I like the old faded look. If you re-paint the signs, they will lose the very character we all love. And I'd be very cautious about new, large-scale painted advertising. But I would love to see more neon, especially along Washington.

By the way, the West End Word says that the demolition of the old cab building on Delmar (East Loop) has exposed an old ghost sign on the Big Shark building. I haven't seen it myself.

trent · PostJul 14, 2006#232006-07-14T20:29+00:00

I miss the big Apple Bottoms ad at Tucker and Wash Ave. We just need more advertising. Sure it can be tacky, but it just screams urban setting or downtown. Look at all the crappy advertising in Times Square, it sort of makes it look cool. Bring back Apple Bottoms (plus, the young lady modelling in that ad was nice to look at).

framer · PostJul 15, 2006#242006-07-15T05:27+00:00

Well, Trent, I have to agree with everything you just said! About the Applebottoms sign, anyway

southcitygent · PostJul 17, 2006#252006-07-17T18:25+00:00

I have always felt downtown and the loft district should encourage large banners hanging from buildings like the ones used in New York's SoHo.

Ghost Signs

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