urbanSTL

JCity wrote:

I also see great potential for a repeat of the 1980s downtown retail scenario.

this is the biggest impediment to this development. We've seen it happen with:

St. Louis Centre

Union Station

Northwest Plaza

Galleria?

How long does everyone feel that something has to be a success for it to be a success? If the Galleria does well for 30 years is that a success? Every big project with 'fail' at some point and get reworked. There is a line here, but is it 15 years? 25 years? 40? More?

Until the bank loan is paid off.

^ That's about 30 years generally right? We don't consider school buildings that are torn down immediately following the debt repayment only to be replaced by a new building and a new debt payment (I've really got to work on my analogies). Anyway, the problem is that St. Louis developers have been very slow to identify trends and have not shown a willingness to introduce something new to St. Louis. St. Louis Centre would have be reinvented three times if it were located in Chicago/Boston/wherever. Same with Union Station. It seems that there's very little faith in redevelopment here.

Framer wrote:Until the bank loan is paid off.

TIFs expire in 23 years (although a successful TIF will expire much earlier) so at least a few years after that at total peak tax revenue would seem to be a good indicator of success on projects with TIF assistance.

It's either updating or dying! For some reason I hadn't seen the first item you posted - thanks.

Arch City Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:13 pm wrote:-New designs have been completed.

-Final "John Hancock" approvals needed.

-New renderings will be put on the website soon.

-Not much has changed.

-250 condos

-Groundbreaking is still anticipated within 90-days (late Spring).

-Final grading is taking place on the site.

-The development will be pedestrian-friendly.

-Residential is essential especially considering the proximity to Lumiere Place.

-Partnering with Clayco has been an asset considering they are local builders/developers.

-Financing is secure from a local bank.

-Announcements will be made in the very near future.



Guys, it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.

Is that a fat lady I hear singing??



It's been 90 days since this was posted... did I miss the ground breaking?!!



Any new renderings or updates?

I was told yesterday that surveying was being done on the site. What that means I don't think anyone can really say, but it's something at least.

If Its anything like the ground breaking, probably nothing.

Calculating how many parking spaces can be marked off?

I would like to see the Bottle District include an amusement park -- or at least a ferris wheel and possibly a small roller coaster. It could the St. Louis version of the Navy Pier. I think it would look great on the skyline. The ferris wheel at Navy Pier has plexiglass walls to cut the wind, which let's them use it almost year-round.





Denver has a Six Flags on the edge of downtown -- it is smaller than a regular Six Flags but has roller coasters and water rides.









Minneapolis has the indoor amusement park at the Mall of America with roller coasters and water rides.



I think a small amusement park would work downtown in the Bottle District, and I don't think it would take business away from Six Flags Eureka. In fact, maybe Six Flags would run it. People would just go to amusement parks more often if there was one downtown and the big one in Eureka.



I can see the John Pils Skyline picture now.

There probably isnt enough room on the lot for a roler coaster.

If they can build a coaster on top of the stratosphere in Vegas, they can fit one in the Bottle District.

Gary Kreie wrote:I would like to see the Bottle District include an amusement park -- or at least a ferris wheel and possibly a small roller coaster. It could the St. Louis version of the Navy Pier. I think it would look great on the skyline. The ferris wheel at Navy Pier has plexiglass walls to cut the wind, which let's them use it almost year-round.

Not a bad idea...it's really not so different than the ideas for the racecar track etc. that are already planned for the site. In any case, I'd rather see that stuff in the Bottle District than on the Gateway Mall.

If they do make a roller coaster they could make some of it go right throught the middle of the arch. How cool would that be?

can we not turn our riverfront into another coney island?

STLMO314 wrote:can we not turn our riverfront into another coney island?

Vienna Island is fine with me. Don't forget the sport peppers!

Just curious...if the residential part of TBD happens, is anyone here even interested in living north of the dome? Living there myself, I'm still convinced that the perception of the area is dooming some of the development.

jmatthewmckee wrote:Just curious...if the residential part of TBD happens, is anyone here even interested in living north of the dome? Living there myself, I'm still convinced that the perception of the area is dooming some of the development.

Absolutely, but I would want to buy, not rent. The development of the near north side is inevitable, perception or no.