Crime Thread

A catch-all forum for urban discussion. If it doesn't fit elsewhere, post here.
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imperialmog wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:08 am
^ I think this issue is a reason why Cardinals attendance this year has dropped off noticeably, even considering weather and not making playoffs last 2 years
They're going to finish the year at 42,xxx just like the last 2 years.
According the most recent article on the PD they STILL don't have a decent description of the suspect. How in the world is that possible? There were hundreds of people at this event.

As an aside I feel sad for young black St. Louisans. This event appears to have been a well put together soiree for young black people and it ended in disaster. This and what has recenlty happened at Mood has got to make it tough on young black people to feel safe in DT
imperialmog wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:52 am
Since I know a number of people who no longer will go to sporting events downtown due to safety and wish they could bring their guns to the games.
Sounds like you need new friends
While I think this highlights the need for metal detectors at BPV,I think people need to take a deep breath on this one. This did not happen after a baseball game, with your run of the mill pre or post-game crowd. This was a private event with up to 400 people crammed into the place. We do not know if there was a personal beef between the parties before this incident. Now, saying that, there is no way in h-ll a firearm should have gotten through the door. These days, it must always be assumed that something of this nature could occur.

I think the media is making this into a huge 'should we be scared to go to baseball games' thing. I do not think so. If this happened before or after a game, I could see some being worried to go to games. Does that make this incident acceptable, h-ll no, but this event had nothing to do with game day events.
I would never go to a bar or restaurant that has metal detectors or has pat downs.


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DogtownBnR wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:34 am
While I think this highlights the need for metal detectors at BPV,I think people need to take a deep breath on this one. This did not happen after a baseball game, with your run of the mill pre or post-game crowd. This was a private event with up to 400 people crammed into the place. We do not know if there was a personal beef between the parties before this incident. Now, saying that, there is no way in h-ll a firearm should have gotten through the door. These days, it must always be assumed that something of this nature could occur.

I think the media is making this into a huge 'should we be scared to go to baseball games' thing. I do not think so. If this happened before or after a game, I could see some being worried to go to games. Does that make this incident acceptable, h-ll no, but this event had nothing to do with game day events.
By that logic, should we put metal detectors at every public place in the city? How will it be paid for? Why not permanently close off the street between BPV and the stadium and put a permanent security barrier around the complex?

Also think what the state legislature will do. They will likely demand guns brought into BPV and the stadium knowing them.
Security personnel with wands not machines at a place like BPV, would be perfectly appropriate for a big event that draws 400 people. Keep in mind, this was an event, not a typical day for BPV. I would be happy to be checked to avoid something like this ever occurring again. Do I think this is necessary on a typical night, at a typical restaurant in town, no. However, for a big event, yes.
It is 2018 and unfortunately, gun crime is rampant everywhere.
DogtownBnR wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:10 pm
Security personnel with wands not machines Would be perfectly appropriate for the big event that draws 400 people.
That makes sense as well those are more portable since fixed assets are more expensive and less flexible. Question though is why was there oversights and things slip through? Also wonder if doing any of this is more security theater than anything else since it won't make things safer overall, just changes where issues could be. You could screen people but that only increases risk there because someone could get someone or attack there, or someone gets attacked offsite.
^Guess there is no full-proof plan, but in this case, a security person with a wand would have kept that gun out of the venue more than likely. In the case that the two individuals had a preexisting beef, I'm sure it would have come to a head somewhere, but it would not have went down as it did INSIDE BPV. Assuming the two were strangers, this person may have left the gun in the car or not come in at all, after seeing staff using a wand on party-goers. If anything at all, it would have significantly reduced the odds of this incident occurring.
imperialmog wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:08 am
^ I think this issue is a reason why Cardinals attendance this year has dropped off noticeably, even considering weather and not making playoffs last 2 years
I don't think that's the case.... Blues attendance would have fallen if it were so. And if you look at some other cities there's hardly been any attendance at all this cool-ish April, and not just the Cincys of the world with woeful records. The zoo also got hit hard with attendance drop so far this year and it's not b/c of crime issues; it's been the weather.

Anyway, downtown hasn't had much problem at all doing well with successful events and hopefully the Cards put a winning product on the field. Sure there's folks who won't come down b/c of irrational crime fears but there's not much you can do about those folks and you move on.
STLrainbow wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:45 pm
imperialmog wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:08 am
^ I think this issue is a reason why Cardinals attendance this year has dropped off noticeably, even considering weather and not making playoffs last 2 years
I don't think that's the case.... Blues attendance would have fallen if it were so. And if you look at some other cities there's hardly been any attendance at all this cool-ish April, and not just the Cincys of the world with woeful records. The zoo also got hit hard with attendance drop so far this year and it's not b/c of crime issues; it's been the weather.

Anyway, downtown hasn't had much problem at all doing well with successful events and hopefully the Cards put a winning product on the field. Sure there's folks who won't come down b/c of irrational crime fears but there's not much you can do about those folks and you move on.
A stronger correlation exists between incidents on MetroLink and ridership of Cardinal fans. Over the past 5 or so years, July specifically has seen a dramatic decline in ridership (nearly 700,000 fewer rides this past July than in previous years). The crowd using MetroLink to get to Games/Concerts/Festivals are probably the most susceptible to MetroLink/Downtown stories. Note: I am predicting the July number to rebound a little due to Fair St. Louis returning to the arch grounds.
This article made me feel better about the fallout from the shooting.

Included out of towners/people from the suburbs and older people saying they still felt safe and that that they are going to keep coming. Those were the groups I was most concerned about.

This is what I had hoped would happen but I wasn't really sure how people would react. As long as it doesn't become a reoccurring thing, I think it won't have much of an impact.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 77ee1.html


After a couple days to think about it, I hope they don't put in metal detectors full time. If they want to have them for paid events at BPV, I think that is fine but if it is just people going to eat dinner, I feel like it is a little bit much.
StlToday - Shooting at St. Charles shopping center leaves one wounded

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 377e0.html
What if the St. Louis metro counties considered creating a Great Rivers Policeway?

In other words, use the funding model of the Great Rivers Greenway to establish funding for a metro-wide police force that overlaps and helps coordinate and supplement metro-wide crime fighting efforts, just as GRG overlaps and helps coordinate and supplement city park efforts.
GRG has been cited as a model for metro efforts at funding trail creation.
https://riskcenter.wharton.upenn.edu/re ... tion-tool/

GRG is funded primarily with various multi-county sales taxes.
Image

I would prefer property tax, since reducing crime should pay off with increases in property values, assuming we get crime down to the level of other Midwestern cities as described here:
https://nextstl.com/2016/08/st-louis-ur ... -windfall/

Crime is like trails and sewers in that management works best when allowed to cross political boundaries. A portion of all of them require some level of regional authority. Not city authority only.
This is an incredible idea. You should send this to an organization like Better Together or something like it, that way this can be passed along to people who can act on it.
BellaVilla wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:16 am
Would you hold this position if it were a biker bar?
Shaddy Jacks is alleging harrasment by the City:


http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/colu ... e-trending
Soulard sees its fifth homicide in 10 years: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ksdk.c ... -559380113
Will you continue to use I64?

Stltoday - Police investigate fatal shooting on Highway 40 (Interstate 64)

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... c.amp.html
If we want to get serious about violent crime in the City, then we need to get serious about sentencing repeat offenders. This guy robbed an ice cream shop in the CWE and punched the sales clerk several times, breaking her nose. He then ran off, resisted arrest, and threatened an officer with a broken board. He already has multiple felony convictions for burglary and robbery. And yet, he's only expected to get 3 - 5 years for this one.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... 438bb.html
framer wrote: If we want to get serious about violent crime in the City, then we need to get serious about sentencing repeat offenders. This guy robbed an ice cream shop in the CWE and punched the sales clerk several times, breaking her nose. He then ran off, resisted arrest, and threatened an officer with a broken board. He already has multiple felony convictions for burglary and robbery. And yet, he's only expected to get 3 - 5 years for this one.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... 438bb.html
In St. Louis we call it "ending mass incarceration".
Does anyone else on here think we will have lower homicide county this year? We have 72 homicides so far this year (164 days). In June last year, this if for the whole month of June and the year from January 1st 2017, we had 92. I can see us having 8 more homicides this month sadly, so -12 on the count would be better, but not ideal. We can't have another year of homicides in the 200s. My guess is we will be around 188 (like 2015 and 2016) no lower than 185 but no higher than 195.
I'm getting increasingly incensed by the lenient sentencing around here.

These guys wreak havoc on a Metro train and the Busch Stadium platform, robbing, physically assaulting people, and ultimately shooting and killing someone. The STL prosecutor agrees to a plea deal, and one of the murderers gets off with just 8 years. The other one got 12.

The victim's brother called the deals "embarrassing for the City of St. Louis", saying they reinforced fears many people have about visiting the City. "Somebody's dead, and due process wasn't allowed to take place. When stuff like this happens, and people aren't prosecuted, why would I come to the City of St. Louis?"

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... 0cd65.html
Car-jacking turned murder, middle of the afternoon, last weekend in DT.

Just horrible.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... ab980.html
^ don't understand the sentencing either. Gardner has been criticized for not prosecuting misdemeanor mj crimes - but figured that was so she and team would concentrate on these types of higher-profile cases.

8-years is a disgrace.

And these events absolutely feed fears about "coming to St. Louis."
Violent crime is like infectious disease – and we know how to stop it spreading
https://mosaicscience.com/story/violenc ... revention/